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Updated: March 31, 3:09 a.m.
College of William and Mary student Walter Luse ’12 was tasered by a Williamsburg Police Department officer after resisting arrest outside the Green Leafe Cafe at approximately 2 a.m. Friday. According to a recent report filed by the WPD, Luse was arrested for using fake identification to purchase alcohol.
Eyewitnesses reported that someone dialed 911 when Luse remained outside the Leafe after being denied entrance.
“He was being belligerent, running around and yelling and trying to get into the Leafe with what I’m assuming was a fake ID,” Drew Albright ’10 said.
Albright witnessed the scene from inside the Leafe.
According to WPD Deputy Chief Dave Sloggie, Officer David Jay and Lieutenant Greg Riley found Luse supporting himself against a railing near the entrance of the Leafe, where he had purchased alcohol using a fake ID earlier.
“[Jay] then noticed that the person was intoxicated and all the symptoms that go with that — glassy, bloodshot eyes,” Sloggie said. “The officer asked for his ID, [and] he told him he didn’t have one. He asked how old he was — there was a long pause — asked how much he had to drink. He told him maybe five beers. [Jay] asked him for his ID, at which point [Luse] told him he was 19.”
After Luse admitted to having purchased alcohol from one of the bartenders with a fake ID, the officer placed him under arrest for being drunk in public, underage possession of alcohol and using a fake ID for the purposes of getting alcohol, Sloggie said.
When the officer attempted to take Luse by the arm, he briefly fled down Richmond Road until the two officers brought him to the ground. According to the police report, Luse thrashed his arms and legs and repeatedly failed to comply with verbal commands before being tasered twice.
“They had him on the ground, and then one officer pulled out the taser gun, holding him with one hand and pointing the gun at him with the other one,” Albright said. “And there was a laser, I’m assuming, because there was a red dot on his back. I couldn’t hear [the officer], I don’t know if he was telling him he was going to tase him, but he paused for a second before he actually hit him with the gun.”
Luse could not be reached for comment.
A taser is a type of weapon that police officers commonly use to subdue criminals.
The device temporarily incapacitates its targets by emitting an electric shock.
“What happens when you tase somebody: There’s a five-second burst and then it’s still connected,” Sloggie said. “If he doesn’t comply, you hit another five second burst. So that’s what appears [to have] occurred.”
Both Albright and Philip Clark ’08 said they thought Luse was shocked around three or four times.
“He was struggling a little bit, but it was unnatural looking,” Albright said. “It was kind of upsetting to watch. When they were shocking him, he was moving strangely.”
Luse was then taken into police custody and treated by paramedics.
“They removed the probes from his back. That is something in a lot of cases we could do, but we call the paramedics,” Sloggie said. “It’s not like they go [in] very deep. They cleaned the areas and secured them with band-aids.”
The police report said that Luse resisted police officers a second time when he was being taken to Virginia Peninsula Regional Jail.
Once Luse arrived at the Jail, the magistrate found probable cause to issue warrants for being drunk in public, underage possession of alcohol, use of a fake ID to obtain alcohol and obstruction of justice. Luse was held without bond.
Documents filed at the James City County District Court indicated that Luse has been charged with one count of obstructing justice, one count of public swearing and intoxication, one count of using a fake ID to purchase alcohol and one count of purchase and possession of alcohol, unlawful in certain cases. The charges were filed by Williamsburg Police Officer David Jay.
Under Virginia Code sections 18.2-460 and 4.1-305, obstructing justice, purchase and possession of alcohol, unlawful in certain cases, and using a fake ID to purchase alcohol are Class 1 misdemeanors.
Under section 18.2-388, swearing and public drunkenness are Class 4 misdemeanors. Documents show that Luse has a hearing scheduled for April 7 at 8:31 a.m.
A call to Virginia Peninsula Regional Jail placed Monday at 6 p.m. determined that Luse had been released.
Following the incident, concerns have been raised regarding the use of force on Luse.
Clark was returning to the Leafe after a walk to Wawa when he passed the officers telling Luse that he would be charged with underage possession of alcohol.
“In the time that it took me to walk into the door and walk around the corner, [Luse] had taken about three steps, gotten knocked to the ground and been shot with the taser,” Clark said. “It happened really quickly. It seemed like they made the taser judgment incredibly quick.”
Clark said he thought the police officer’s use of a taser may have been unnecessary.
“It just seemed a little excessive for the use of three or four shots of a taser gun when the police officers were fairly big guys, and [Luse] was not that big. He wasn’t exactly winning any fight.”
WPD Administrative Order 1.3.1 states that, “there are understandable occasions in the normal course of any police action which may demand an officer’s lawful application of that force necessary to execute his legal authority.”
According to Susan Geary, uniform bureau major for WPD, whether a use of force is considered necessary is a matter of the officer’s discretion.
“It’s definitely situational,” Geary said. “Some people you can tell just aren’t going to be compliant. You know, they’re charging at you or they’re fighting you nonstop until the end.”
Under Administrative Orders 1.3.6 and 1.3.7, a standard use of force report has been completed by Jay and is undergoing an internal review by the department.
“The police have the power to use force in certain circumstances, and we have a progression of that force starting with verbal command, but at any time we use something other than verbal, we will fill out a use of force report,” Sloggie said.
Sloggie said that every time officers use force ranging from placing hands on a suspect to drawing weapons, the officer must file a use of force report to be reviewed by the police chain of command.
Both Sloggie and Geary, who are required to review the use of force report, said that this case was appropriate.
“I can tell you this, sir, I’ve been on the department 30 years, and the level of force for tasing seems to be offensive to people sometimes, but when we used to have to use nightsticks and blackjack, that was a whole different world out there — that or just fight,” Sloggie said. “And between pepper spray and tasing, injuries to suspects and officers are extremely reduced.”
Contents of the case report were relayed to The Flat Hat through Sloggie.
A Freedom of Information Act request for the use of force report was denied under Virginia State Code.
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65 Comments
Dear Officer, re-read the
Dear Officer, re-read the article. All of the ‘reports’ in it are from either 1. police or 2. police apologists. There are many people who witnessed the tasering who were absolutely appalled by the brutality that they inflicted on this poor kid for nothing more than underage alcohol consumption. Time for pigs like you to stop posting.
Claire, Logically speaking,
Claire,
Logically speaking, just because someone is in a position that lends itself to bias doesn’t mean that their testimony / statements actually are biased. The truth-value of their statements regarding what happened is independent of their position without any further evidence to show that those statements actually are biased. Why? Obviously, because people in extremely biased positions (e.g., a police officer giving facts related to another officer’s use of force) can give unbiased testimony. Now, if there’s evidence of actual (and not just propensity towards) their bias, I’d be interested to hear that.
Again, I hate to have to keep saying this, but I haven’t come down either way for lack of facts, and my thoughts are below.
Kurt, do us a favor and
Kurt, do us a favor and avoid having any kids. The last thing we need is another rebellious infant like you.
Regardless of what his defendants say, Luse is not a bright man. This isn’t a one-time mistake for him. Didn’t you read the comments? One of his friends said he has been physically restrained several times while drunk. Intelligent people don’t willingly and repeatedly enter such situations. The kid is an idiot and a disgrace to our College.
I’m not a police officer, nor am I related to any. I have no reason to defend them other than the facts of this incident. I personally think police officers should be allowed more liberality in their use of physical force. If you don’t want to get tased, keep the law.
Are you suggesting that no physical force be allowed by police officers? The kid resisted arrest. Even if he was pinned by the officers and unable to move, they still have to get him up and into their car. He would have resisted that, too. Do you let it go on and insist that the police officers bear the scars of any altercation? Why should they? They aren’t the ones breaking the law. Thank God for tasers to tranquilize the animals on our campus.
Great post, Logic. It is
Great post, Logic.
It is clear to me that one transgression relates to Luse’s drunk, underage, and resistant status.
The other potential trangression is related to the officer’s use of force.
Two concerns exist:
Was the officer’s use of force in keeping with the officer’s directives?
Were the officer’s directives appropriate given the population they were designed to protect/serve?
The officer either followed procedure or not. This deserves investigation and follow-up.
However, if the officer followed procedure, the question remains “Is the procedure followed appropriate for the William and Mary population?”
If certain protective procedures by the police are appropriate for some populations, but not others, I’m interested in the logic behind that distinction.
Just because you’ve taken
Just because you’ve taken one or two introductory graduate courses, Law, does not give you license to write on this message board like you are the fucking second coming. In fact, not only have you failed to formulate a clear line of original thought amidst all of your vainglorious, bullshit rhetorical questions, I’m starting to think that your elite graduate school should provide more opportunities for its incoming classes to get outside. Look into it – maybe you can start a weekend slip n’ slide in ITT Tech’s parking lot. Mr. logic, in conclusion, I deduce that you go do alum things….
But we are more alike than you might think; this snafu will without a doubt hurt our College by a judgement of every conceivable metric of principle and decency. There are no ultimate positive outcomes here. Its an archetypal lose-lose that will hopefully elicit a wake-up call.
Kurtt, 1. Ad hominem
Kurtt,
1. Ad hominem attacks, especially unfounded ones, don’t progress civil discussion of any issue.
2. Your knowledge of my educational qualifications inside the classroom and experiential qualifications outside the classroom is seriously wrong in a factual sense, but my (and others’) qualifications are irrelevant to the validity and soundness of the arguments being made for and against the taser use at hand. If you must know, I attend a top-10 law school, am on law review and another journal, on Moot Court, and am a published author in the intersections of philosophy, law, ethics, economics, and sociology. I also grew up in the ghetto of a major city for the first 18 years of my life and have seen, and been involved in, quite a variety of experiences, as you can imagine. But again – that information is only relevant to correcting your mis-statements of my qualifications, not to bolster or negate any arguments having to do with the tasering of the student. I certainly don’t think that I know it all by any means, but I’m trying to help myself and others have a useful discussion in this forum so that we can all become better educated about the issues presented (myself included).
3. Asking the kind of questions that I have accomplish a number of objectives necessary to promoting a vigorous discussion. Conclusory statements don’t progress discussion, except that it burdens the audience to determine for themselves what line-drawing methodology the declarant is asserting. The questions are not at all meant to be rhetorical. Contrarily, they have a very distinct purpose – to elicit the foundations for the assertions other posters are making so that I (and others) can respond
4. If you think there’s a way my tone could be more neutral, I’m open to suggestions; my whole purpose is to try to write in a neutral, non-inflammatory tone. But keep in mind that there is a very large and common problem of misinterpretation, particularly in tone, when reading written messages.
Officer “logic,” One of
Officer “logic,”
One of your comrades electrocuted someone for being 18 and drunk. If you are from anywhere other than Iran or Saudi Arabia I would hope that you see this as a gross abuse of power and force. Someone needs to be held accountable, and I say that whomever of your colleagues is responsible should be fired. Immediately.
I’m actually not an
I’m actually not an officer. I’m a fairly recent graduate of the College who’s now in an excellent graduate / professional school. And as I’ve mentioned before in previous posts, I can’t come down on either side of this because there simply aren’t enough facts.
Your assertion is that an officer electrocuted someone for being 18 and drunk. From the facts in the article, it would be more accurate to say that an officer did so because he was resisting arrest. After all, your account of the facts would be accurate if the officer discovered that he was drunk and then immediately shocked him – but the facts brought to light thus far don’t reveal that.
I’m not at all saying your position is wrong – if you read my previous posts, and as I’ve previously mentioned, I can’t come to a judgment because there aren’t enough facts, and could see this going either way depending on the details. But conclusory statements don’t progress the discussion because the parties talking end up not addressing each others’ points. That’s why I’m asking for an underlying principle and an argument rather than a conclusion. Your response is just yet another conclusion. Are you arguing there should never be taser use? Are you arguing that taser use should be prohibited in a college town or where the locality doesn’t pose a substantial threat in the aggregate? Are you arguing that taser use should be prohibited in all drunk / disorderly situations? (You get the idea.)
It’s also not clear whether you’re making a normative or descriptive argument. Are you saying that the officer failed to comply with the existing law on use of force and police policy involving taser use (descriptive), or are you saying that even if he did comply with the policy / law on taser use, the policy / law needs to be changed?
What is the name of the
What is the name of the jackass officer responsible? Someone should lose their job over this.
Scott, Unfortunately,
Scott,
Unfortunately, your statement is conclusory and lacks an argument. What’s the underlying principle you’re employing to explain why “someone should lose their job over this?”
Kurtt- What class at
Kurtt-
What class at William and Mary taught you to use ad hominem arguments so well?
Your comment, WMalum04,
Your comment, WMalum04, reeks of unemployment. Now go get a job as well as a refresher lesson in sarcasm. Of course my post was impractical, but then again, at least it doesn’t lack a sense of human decency. Until then, I bid you hope in diverting more of your literary energies towards Monster.com
Kurtt, You mean like the
Kurtt,
You mean like the shooting at Kent State or the Chicago riots. I think a taser is an appropriate tool in this case. Your comment reeks of elitism and is impractical. A wawa sub, seriously?
Yo, I was there. I saw it.
Yo, I was there. I saw it. shit was nasty. the little dude was like dont tazer me bro and then the copz was like fuck yeah you will take it and you will like it ya bieach!!!! and then lioke sparks came out of little dudes body and he was fliping around like you girl does when she riding my face. and then like little dude got up and like i was like WOW!!!!!!! kids got pOWER!!!! but then like they fucked him up again and he stayed down, like dead. then when they was taking hiom off he said fuck tha police and i was like yeah this dudes got it. little dudes got it. respect, mad respect.
I’m also talking about
I’m also talking about the precedent that this now sets at The College. Do we really want a situation where an already untrustworthy police force is given the power to shocking drunk students with 30000 Voltage stun guns. You have to understand that beligerence follows drunkenness, and trust me, there are more efficacious ways of controlling a drunk person than zapping them. Show them a Wawa Meatball sandwich for instance…and then lead them into jail. Be fucking creative. It’s not that hard, nor does it take a college degree (perfect!). Using tasers represents the easy way out and its implications span from the philosophical to criminological. This is a huge backwards leap in the creation of a healthy college community.
I ask you guys to ask your parents what college was like for them. Get a sense of an era that had it right and understand that what has happened is bad for us all.
Intelligence, huh? From
Intelligence, huh? From others’ comments, Walter has a reputation as a bright guy, and it didn’t work out so well for him.
We are diverging from the issue, however.
The question should be: Police have certain procedures to follow in the use of this kind of force. Did they, or did they not, follow them in this situation? As facts trickle out, hopefully this will be clear.
If they did not follow procedure, Walter should absolutely pursue legal action.
However, if they did follow procedure, the outrage some students are showing over laws applying to him is a ridiculous.
Denny and Kurtt are
Denny and Kurtt are addressing two different issues. Denny is interested in the descriptive nature of the law / police procedures: did the police follow them or not in this circumstance with Walter?
Kurtt’s comments seem to be interested in the normative nature of the police procedures: are these procedures justified, why / why not, and what would be the better underlying principle to derive those police procedures from?
Actually, Denny,
Actually, Denny, intelligence is the best indicator of one’s propensity to commit a crime. Look it up. In your future career (I’m smelling social justice something etc.), you might need to know that. Nonetheless, your point has nothing to do with anything. If you were arguing that crime rates in LA and Williamsburg are comparable, then your also wrong.
Wow, Kurt. Maybe it would
Wow, Kurt. Maybe it would be nice if the laws and enforcement of those laws varied based on geographic location and socioeconomic status! It would be fine as long as WE could keep THEM out of our nice neighborhoods, right?
Yeah, we are suggesting
Yeah, we are suggesting that Law. This is not Southeast Los Angeles for God’s sake. Do you see people running around popping caps in people’s asses and pimping hoes left and right? No, if you take a three second glance at the Sunken Gardens your most likely just going to spot a hundred awkward looking WM kids whose molars just grew in.
I hope the Police Department realizes they have overstepped their boundaries on this one. But then again, we go to a school that has for some time consistently allowed a disproportionate and inordinate amount of police presence on campus. Coupled with a student populace that somehow favors this type of rule of law (they’re still worried about their lunch money being stolen), its not surprising that we will probably see more and more of these gross violations in the future.
I hope all of the facts come to light soon, and if they show unwarranted aggression by the police officers, I would hope charges would be filed on behalf of the victimized.
Most seem to be missing the
Most seem to be missing the point.
Regardless of the drunken joviality known to his friends, the police had a noncompliant young man under the influence, and needed to subdue him without threat to himself or the other officers. Should they have used batons? Bashed his head into the concrete? Let him go?
I drank frequently on and off campus during my freshman and sophomore years at the college. However, I knew the rules applied to me, and handled my (thankfully few) drunken interactions calmly and compliantly. Hint: each time I was allowed to leave and walk/be driven home.
Some officers are certainly intent to teach a lesson to the uppity college kid. The ones I’ve met have been more concerned with public safety and maintaining a peaceful community.
Nobody responding here would blink if this had happened to some 19 year old gangbanger outside of a Norfolk club. However, when it happens to a privileged freshman at OUR college, it is time to let those responsible for Williamsburg law enforcement that we will NOT stand by as the Leafe parking lot turns into Tiananmen Square.
Give me a break.
Police Brutality is a scary
Police Brutality is a scary thing…there is no way this warrants tazing. Even if he ran, the police could have easily handled the situation better…hes a college student give me a break.
Are you suggesting a
Are you suggesting a principle whereby the appropriateness of tasing turns on the age or identity of the person as a member of a subclass?
Wa Luse is a great kid, a
Wa Luse is a great kid, a bit misguided at times, but great. In response to Jason Orr, he is absolutely brilliant, and probably smarter than you are, so don’t judge a person you don’t know. While he may be making a few silly mistakes, I highly doubt that he will ultimately not be a great alumni of the College, and someone that the Tribe can be proud of. I really hope that he’ll be back again in the fall.
And the details in the
And the details in the story, if assumed to be true, do at least indicate that two officers had him on the ground, and yet he continued to resist by “thrashing” his arms and legs – all of which occurred before they used the taser to subdue him. So again, if the details are accurate on that point, then Wally’s resistance seems at least initially sufficient to warrant the use of less-than-lethal force to stop his resistance.
Then again, more details would always be nice. Perhaps they couldn’t get the handcuffs on him because he kept thrashing – if that’s the case, then the use of the taser would be more justified. If, however, they could have reasonably gotten the handcuffs on him and thus sufficiently restrained him without the use of the taser and without causing more harm to him (e.g., injuring a shoulder or something) than would be expected by the use of the taser, then the taser is less justified.
Having had to pin Wally
Having had to pin Wally while he has been drunk a few times or carry him around while he was trying to escape, I can say that it isn’t very hard. The police basically went to the taser almost immediately instead of trying to simply hold him on the ground and cuff him. It almost feels as if the current police protocol is to go for the taser in case of any resistance instead of just attempting a simple pin as is done in cases where there is no taser. It just feels like these officers are taking the easy way out that is much more dangerous to the subject.
While Anonymous makes a
While Anonymous makes a decent point from experience, the past indications of how much force is required to pin Wally while he was drunk in the privacy of friends or a party is hardly probative of how much force the officers reasonably thought was needed to restrain him in an entirely different setting involving the general public and law enforcement. (That’s part of the generally accepted rationale for the limitation on the use of such propensity evidence in court under the Federal Rules of Evidence – it’s just not very probative of the time in question, except in certain circumstances.) And at least from a legal standpoint, the major exception to the restriction on propensity evidence – a pattern of a nonvoluntary habit (e.g., that would be very probative precisely because it’s nonvoluntary) – does not apply because actions during intoxication have failed to show that they are sufficiently nonvoluntary to be probative.
not to excuse this dude,
not to excuse this dude, who seems to have been acting like a total idiot/asshole, but seriously, a taser?? for a drunken teenager trying to get into a bar? i get that in the context of the williamsburg crime scene it’s probably pretty big to get a drunk and disorderly person resisting arrest, but that choice of weapon seems entirely inappropriate and out of proportion considering what the crime was – a drunk college kid stupidly trying to use a fake and stupidly (and, i would guess, ineffectively) trying to run away. i wasn’t there, so i don’t think i could pass anything like a final judgment here, but let’s be real, these are not “the mean streets of williamsburg” or anything like that. the kid seems dumb but probably pretty harmless. hopefully this was some kind of weird fluke, not part of an actual policy of tasing drunk college students. if the latter’s the case, god help us next year when the frats move off campus
Tasers may be overused or
Tasers may be overused or used improperly, and it would be irresponsible to call them a “non-lethal weapon” and not a “less-lethal weapon”. However, when compared to the alternative means of subduing a suspect — beating him with a stick — it should be clear that the taser is a less brutal method.
I think we should be more concerned about why Virginia State Code allows the denial of a Freedom of Information Act request, and less concerned about why a police officer chose to use a taser on a drunken and belligerent student.
read this for an
read this for an interesting perspective on taser deaths and the pseudo-science that lawyers use to defend law enforcement officials and the taser lobby: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/02/tasers-delirium-defense
kurtt… what exactly are
kurtt…
what exactly are you trying to say? Or are you just trying to take a shot at 33% of the student body that is from northern virginia? Most of them can probably write a coherent argument better than you though, since apparently no one knows what you are trying to say.
Jess V. – I am all for lowering the drinking age to 18, but b/c you are “scared” of the police is not a reason to run. If the cop pulls up behind you while you’re speeding, it is not ok to not pull over. Bad things happen when you run from the police, regardless of why you ran.
Isn’t Philip Clark out of
Isn’t Philip Clark out of the country?
This is ridiculous. You
This is ridiculous. You people welcoming and even advocating the tasing of your fellow students – you guys are warped in the head. Reevaluate your own lives before you come on this website and start spouting off assumptions. Only a bunch of kids from paper-pushing, cog-in-wheel families from Nova (the Detroit of the South) would agree with this type of force. Congrats on making this school a complete and utter joke.
kurtt, I’m having
kurtt,
I’m having trouble deriving your comment from a principle other than “tasing a member of the class of people that I belong to is wrong.”
Can you explain the ethical or other principle you’re employing here?
Wa Luse is a great man and
Wa Luse is a great man and a great friend, who would do anything for those he cares about. This school should be saddened by his loss this semester and pray for his return next fall. I know I am.
Hey wasn’t tased for
Hey wasn’t tased for being drunk… he was tased for resisting arrest. He did not listen to MULTIPLE verbal warnings. That was the student’s chance to end the situation without further actions from the police, and the student FORCED the police to take further action.
Why are people quoting facts about tasers and death? Should we quote the statistics for alcohol too? Maybe we should ban that along with the tasers. Come on. The solution is not to ban things. The solution is for people who don’t want to be tased, to drumroll do what the police say, and treat them with respect. Just to be clear, running away and trying to hit them does not fall under that description.
“According to Susan
“According to Susan Geary, uniform bureau major for WPD, whether a use of force is considered necessary is a matter of the officer’s discretion.”
Possibly the most important sentence in the article??? I think that if it was like four times that he was tased, that’s probably too much, but I recognize that it isn’t my call… That is not justifying the actions.
I don’t think the solution is to ban things either, but to reevaluate factors that contributed to this incident. For example, an arbitrary age limit on the accessibility to alcohol. College policies that may have convinced him it was a better idea to go out in public (where there are more risks to his and others’ safety) than in his own room (or a friend’s). Why didn’t he cooperate with the police? If he was frightened of them, perhaps question why and see what can be done to better that…
Rachel, He was resisting
Rachel,
He was resisting arrest; this warranted the lawful use of force. Whether the use of force was excessive is debatable, but it was used nevertheless for much more than “being drunk underage”. He even ran away from the police; I should hope that this does not apply to “literally [sic] anyone” in the College community.
I hope Luse does not return to our College; he is an embarrassment to the Tribe and to people with dignity everywhere.
Jesus christ are you people
Jesus christ are you people out of your minds?
This guy was TASED basically for being drunk underage, which, even according to very conservative estimates, is true for over half of WM students. This situation could happen to literally anyone.
Is it your argument that
Is it your argument that (1) the police essentially punished him with the use of a taser before he was tried, (2) he was tased for something which many people at W&M would be punished for, making the use of a taser in these circumstances inappropriate, or (3) something else?
while i can understand
while i can understand where those who are anti-taser are coming from, why isn’t the student being held accountable for his actions? he’s the one who made the mistake of using a fake id, being a belligerent punk, then choosing to run from the police (no doubt influenced by his intoxication). the officers’ actions were completely appropriate given the situation since he was fighting them even after they had him on the ground. his drunkenness is not an excuse for ignoring the verbal commands of the officers. as others have mentioned, the use of a taser in this case was much better than a nightclub or fists and they undoubtedly warned him several times that he’d need to calm down in order to avoid it.
additionally, paramedics removing the probes is standard protocol and not something that indicates it was some serious injury. police tasers are not stabbed into an individual as someone below seems to believe but look much like a handgun with a laser for aiming accuracy. the student involved had the opportunity to leave before the police even arrived and to cooperate with them once they had, so he should be getting criticized just as much as they are.
i agree that committing a crime does not absolve someone of their rights, but stop saying it’s the police’s fault for doing their jobs when someone breaks the law. of course instances of police brutality exist, but this is not one of those cases. the police wouldn’t have been there at all if the kid didn’t do something (or several somethings) stupid, and illegal, in the first place.
The fact that he was still
The fact that he was still in jail on Sunday was probably only because he was arrested after the court had closed for the weekend. To post bond, he’d need to have that go before a judge, which couldn’t happen until Monday morning at the earliest. So he should be out by today.
regarding posting bond, the
regarding posting bond, the magistrate can set that, and could have done so once they got to jail.
i have a feeling it didn’t happen then because of the number of class 1 misdemeanors that he was charged with. he’s probably been arraigned this morning in video court, and is likely bailed out by now.
The anti-taser people are
The anti-taser people are right. Sounds like the guy deserved to be clubbed upside the head instead.
My beef with the whole incident is the fact that he’s held without bond. I think that’s the only excessive part about this case.
I’m surprised no one has
I’m surprised no one has explored the link between underage drinking and the War on Terror. I wonder how much the police department is able to charge the taxpayer for the use “non-lethal” force and paramedic services in the ‘defense’ of the common good?
Anyone register Sloggie’s nostalgia for the days of the good ol’ blackjack? Who was he arresting, the Bowery Boys on the Lower Eastside?
I wonder what the guy who
I wonder what the guy who got the tasing is going to say about this whole thing? I hope he posts his comments!
So, if tasers are so evil,
So, if tasers are so evil, as you all seem to believe, why are they exceedingly prevalent in law enforcement today? Are you guys the only people so enlightened to be able to read this groundbreaking research from an organization with a clearly published agenda? you’d think, if these devices were as deadly as you make them out to be that the people who control the police departments (ie mayors and city managers and attorneys) would make them verboten.
I guess you would rather have the policemen rip, tear and shread this guys shoulders and arms to force him into cuffs. What good is that? then you’d be taking up a collection for his surgical expenses and lambasting the police that there had to be another way to get him into custody. What would you have done different? Have you ever had to do what those guys do for a living? I haven’t, and I freely admit that they have a tough job and need the tools and the latitude to use those tools to get the job done.
this whole commentary about deadly tasers is a bunch of rhetoric propagated to make you feel better about breaking the law and damning the man when you get caught.
I ask you this: you claim this is “police brutality.” How would you have done it? Tell me that! Without pain, without ANY risk of injury (because according to your rhetoric any risk is too much risk). How would you place an uncooperative, disorderly and intoxicated person into handcuffs when they’re trying with all their might to resist?
Open Minded Senior: It's
Open Minded Senior: It's somewhat difficult to respond to your comment when you clearly didn't read through the comments that you're criticizing.
Amnesty acknowledge repeatedly in their report that Tasers are not lethal in the vast majority of the cases in which they're used, and cite peer-reviewed clinical studies to reaffirm that claim. They even acknowledge the need (and benefit) of non-lethal weapons by law enforcement on the very first page of the report.
Nobody here used the words "evil" or "deadly" apart from yourself.
I brought this subject up, simply to refute the claim that Tasers are non-lethal weapons; in a very small number of cases, repeated and prolonged shocks from a taser will indeed cause death. There are documented cases of this occurring.
Amnesty's primary gripe lies within their opinion that Tasers are "inherently open to abuse," thanks to their ease of use and low risk to the arresting officer. Additionally, one could debate at which point the use of a taser is considered "excessive use of force."
From what I gather from the article, Luse was extremely intoxicated, had already been brought to the ground, and was restrained before he was tased. If this was indeed the situation, one would think that a well-trained officer would have known how to handle the situation without placing himself at any additional risk.
Joe: Although I respect your
Joe:
Although I respect your opinion, the full 127-page Amnesty International report contained extensive documentation from medical examiners, The United States Justice Department and The Center for Disease Control.
The Amnesty International Report does indeed conclude that a single shock from a Taser does not represent a significant health hazard to most individuals. However, the body of scientific research on the effects of Tasers on human subjects is extremely limited. The first proper clinical studies (apart from those commissioned by Taser International) only began in 2006. In particular, there is virtually no research to indicate the effects of the weapon on subjects with heart conditions, or on subjects that have received multiple and prolonged shocks, despite the fact that the majority of Taser-related deaths were found to have occurred under these circumstances.
A Wake Forest University study also noted that 99.7 cases of Taser use do not result in injuries requiring hospitalization. Clearly the incident in front of the Green Leafe was on the extreme end of the spectrum. Amnesty International does note, however, that "Tasers are used in many situations where the degree of force deployed is unwarranted, and considers that any risk of death resulting from the use of excessive or unnecessary force is unacceptable." (Emphasis mine)
The 'more than 150' statistic I quoted earlier was indeed somewhat inaccurate. Amnesty International now estimates the number to be 'over 330,' and details their methodology for arriving at that number in their report, with extensive autopsy information being analyzed for 90 of those deaths. Their primary concern is that treatment of the Taser as a non-lethal weapon has opened the door for abuse of the device, particularly in situations where the subject is non-combative, or does not pose a threat to the arresting officer. Out of the 334 deaths analyzed, 299 were unarmed, 33 were armed, and 2 were 'possibly armed.'
Please take the time to do the proper research before forming such strong opinions, and try to have the courage to use your real name when presenting them.
~Andrew
For those of you quoting
For those of you quoting stats from Amnesty International…. I hope you can come up with something better than that. AI’s stats have proven time and time again to be false. They have a pretty determined political agenda. Try using that education your obtaining to find some common sense and not believe everything you read in media. Sensational stories sells papers. If you don’t like Williamsburg, then transfer.. Try whining once you get to the real world where you can’t hide behind your college and parents.