Many of the people I play paintball with are combat veterans. In fact my brother who is in Iraq right now wants to jump into the SPORT when he gets back. You can keep on crying about it and people are going to keep on playing paintball. In light of this you might want to choose a different topic to cry about.

It’s also funny that you write for a publication that wants to give our sworn enemies the same rights in court as an every day citizen. Instead of gathering valuable intelligence that can save lives you want them to lawyer up. Is that how Flat Hat honors vets?

Cheers,

Vince

So…I have a ton of paintball equipment I have collected over the years. I was Googling trying to see if there was a place I could donate my stuff, hoping there was some organization that worked with the military. I read once the soldiers in Afghanistan had set up a paintball field and since I was thinking of Ebaying my old gear, I thought it would be better to give it to a good cause.

Then I stumble across this article. Fail, fail, fail. First, the majority of paintball is no longer war-themed. It is still a big part of the sport, but the complete ignorance the author displays on the topic is illuminating.

Furthermore, you don’t question soldiers and vets. They can celebrate however they choose. Period. What loser asks if they have earned this right? And I am wrong for thinking that it would be cool to go out balling with a bunch of heros on a day set aside for them?!? You sir, are the one who has some pretty messed up views.

Lance hit the nail on the head when he highlights “arrogance” and “ignorance” of certain members of the student body. It is not surprising that some people think they can tell veterans how they should celebrate veterans day, when others think they are so high and mighty in all their years of experience that they alone should determine college policy, pick the college President, etc. rather than experts. In the same respect, these non-veteran individuals believe they know what it is like to serve or to sacrifice, when they clearly have no clue.

The flat hat ed board- kids who have grown up with silver spoons in their mouths, and the writer lacking the courage to stand up and identify them self. If you don’t have the balls to serve your country in battle, don’t demean our veterans by attacking their holiday or event. You don’t even have to support it, you just don’t have to go out of your way to attack it.

I won’t lie, I have had a cushy life. But I also don’t have a holier-than-thou, pretentious attitude and think I even understand what they went through or have any place to tell them how to celebrate their holiday.

Lance has a second important fact- why are some of these people hammering the only celebration on campus but doing nothing? If they did care they would have done something, but their true colors – contempt, ignorance, and arrogance- shine in this disgusting article.

Before the vets society, the tribe neglected to recognize veterans day since I have been here and speaking to alums, they never did. What’s with that?

This paper supported Obama. Obama supports Vets and would be disgusted with the flat hat and the elitist attitudes displayed by some of the punks attacking our vets, who obviously don’t care and are apathetic to the thought of recognizing these real life heroes.

I do find it ironic that “Class of 2011” criticizes the Ed Board for publishing an unsigned editorial (a practice, by the way, that is common in both professional and college newspapers across the country), and then comments under a pseudonym. I also find it ironic that he or she states that the Ed Board’s opinion is “worthless,” but then takes the time to write such a lengthy and impassioned criticism. Surely if it meant nothing, you wouldn’t be so eager to point out what you find to be flawed.

In any case, it’s ridiculous to glean from this editorial that the Flat Hat’s Ed Board is disrespecting veterans. Instead, it questions the choice of paintball as the focus of the event, as some may see paintball as a trivialized version of war. It’s hard to argue with the true veterans who organized the event, as they know the horrors of war, and it is certainly their right to organize such an event. What I find appalling, however, is this idea that because members of the Ed Board aren’t veterans (a fact that many commenters seem to have assumed), they have no right to speak up about the issue. Last I checked, the freedom of speech is among the freedoms that our veterans have so bravely defended. While you may not agree with the Ed Board, or any others who found the event questionable, their words are no less valid than yours.

Although the board is not cowardly, the individual who wrote this and hides behind “ed board” certainly is something of a coward. Put your name on something when you write it.

I have lost all respect for the Flat Hat. The simple fact that they had numerous methods in which to honor Veterans Day and instead attacked the only Veterans Day on campus is very disappointing and shows a lack of leadership and good judgment on behalf of the editor-in-chief and other students in top position. It is also sad that so many people failed to even learn anything about paintball or what it was about, or even consulted the veterans, before they went on the attack. It would have made them look more intelligent, instead of an ignorant, angry group with something to prove.

Their belief that they (kids who have never served as Mr. Zaal candidly puts it) know better than veterans on their own campus when it comes to what “disrespects” them does, in fact, demonstrate a strong concentration of both ignorance and arrogance. Even I recognize when it is my proper place to speak of certain things. I have not served and we owe everything we have to those who have served.

Elections? Out right to free speech? Our comfortable lifestyles? Rights? Freedom? These would be nothing if not for people like Mr. Zaal and Veterans who have done nothing but put their lives on the line for us- only to be mocked and hated by ungrateful people like the critics on this post and the flat hat ed board. They give years of their lives so that yours can be better. Show some appreciation, since we can never understand what they went through.

If anything demonstrates disrespect to Veterans, it is this article and those who are in alignment with it. I am glad that jokes do not run college policy and frankly, no one cares about what your ed board has to say. Their opinion is worthless.

Those who have failed to show thanks should be ashamed of themselves.

To those whose experiences and opinions hold weight in the hearts of most Americans from all political spectrum-

Thank You.

Many comments simply attack the Editorial Board as “whiny college students” or “whiny liberals” who don’t get it. I don’t believe this is entirely accurate. Since our adolescence, we have lived with some kind of war, be it the acts of September 11, Afghanistan and currently Iraq. While most of us have not been a soldier in these conflicts, we are most certainly familiar with the tragic situations facing allied forces in these foreign countries, and the mistreatment many received after returning home at places like Walter Reed Army Medical Hospital. While we haven’t experienced it ourselves, we most certainly do know what American soldiers face. I believe it is poor judgement on the part of many of the veterans who have commented on this story to assume that college students are ignorant to these realities. Joining the military, while admirable, does not place you beyond criticism. A lot of the criticism of the Flat Hat Editorial Board has come from people with jingoistic senses of patriotism who believe all veterans are sacrosanct. Instead of reading “In Flanders Fields”, why not read “And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda”? Some will comment and say that I am unpatriotic for questioning the authority of veterans, in which case I will claim that authority (for argument’s sake) as a member of a military family. Both of my grandfathers served in wartime, one in the Army in World War II, the other in the Navy in the Korean War. My father was drafted during Vietnam, but thankfully the peace accords were signed before he had to serve. I have spoken to all three of them about war and their various experiences, and I can say definitively, none of them like war. What does it say about us when we honor those who hate war most by crudely recreating and mimicking war?

You know, it is amazing to me how much our country has changed in just a few short decades.

During World War II, it was an embarassment, almost shameful, to receive a draft deferment. Young men by the hundreds of thousands volunteered to serve our country overseas, and over 400,000 of them didn’t come home.

Just three short generations later, we have entered a period in which out-of-touch, college-age, latte liberals feel that they have the authority to instruct veterans about patriotism and the cost of freedom. Instead of lecturing our veterans, why not thank them?

This editorial makes me sick to my stomach and offers just one more reason to not waste my time reading the Flat Hat.

This is my final, parting shot post, unless you retreds feel like going a couple rounds with one of your betters. Question to the editorial staff: Are you a Combat Veteran? If the answer is NO, then who and what gives YOU the right to decide what is and is not honorable or dishonorable to veterans? If you have never been in combat, never been rocketed, shot at, IED’d, Mortared, or been sent to a foreign country for an extended period of time, then you have no idea and no right to speak for us. Lance has been there and done that. He is the SVA President for W&M, and therefore is THE spokesman for the organization and the veterans that it represents. Not some bunch of cowardly, spoiled little college children whose only time away from Mommy and Daddy has been college. Also, the American Legion was on site for the CHARITY tournament, so, yeah, I think that veterans were slightly NOT offended. And lastly, the even was held on Sunday afternoon, not on Tuesday, which actually was Veteran’s Day. Go do something productive, like reading In Flanders’ Field By Major McRae of Canada, which is something school children used to have to memorize on November 11th, on the 11th hour of the 11th day, of the 11th month.

By the way, I am a veteran of Operation Enduring Freedom, rotation Five (2004-2005) in Afghanistan. I was on one of the teams, and I approve of the event. It was for CHARITY, a good cause!

I agree with Lance, this article is semi humorous. The fact that the “newspaper” uses Veteran’s Day, and a charity event to attack the very people who give them their right to write whatever they please is humorous. But it is also DISTURBING. As a Veteran, and a participant in the event, I give kudos to Lance and the rest of the vets at W&M for organizing it, and Lance, the Patriots will win next year btw. But seriously, what kind of crazy, schizophrenic loser uses a day to respect veterans and a CHARITY event for that purpose to attack the very veterans themselves. Huh? Answer that please.

One last thing. To those who believe that Iraq is not a real war, nor is there any real fighting going on in Iraq, I invite you to come up with me to Walter Reed Army Medical Center where we can talk to soldiers who have nothing to lose by telling you the truth. If not that, then I invite anyone to come up and either talk with the Vetsoc members at William and Mary who have fought in Iraq, or you can also come up to Northern Virginia where you can meet with a student veteran group composed of over 200 members.

After having read all of the comments and this article I have to say that this was in itself not a tasteless article, rather it was a tasteless attack against the Veterans at William and Mary. If this had been the only article written by Flat Hat News on the topic of Veterans Day and paintball than I would have to agree that I, Lance, and every other veteran defended the constitution of this country so that journalists (even of the quasi college type) have the right to express their opinions. Yet since this was the second article on the matter of Veterans Day and paintball in less than a month, this recent attack clearly shows that Flat Hat New has an agenda and whatever that agenda may be, it is not supporting veterans.

As for Lance and all men having views and expressing their views on abortion, I will only say that the pro-life, pro-feminist movement, has used in its defense time and again that “This is my body, not yours, and you have no right to tell me what do to with my body”. If that is in fact a valid arguement for a woman’s right to choose, than Lance’s (and many of his fellow veterans’) arguement that you are not a veterans thus you do not have the right to tell me what is and what is not disrespectful to my fellow veterans is also a valid arguement in this case.

I along with almost everyone else who has ever considered themselves an Opinion Columnist in the 21st century have always attached our names to our columns, because right or wrong we take credit for what we write. The fact that Flat Head News did not have the decency to attach their individual names to this column shows that either they did not agree with the claim of the column or that they were afraid of the whirlwind of reproach that this column would invariably produce. Whatever the reason might be for this lack of journalistic integrity, Flat Head News forgot that while Colonial Williamsburg recreates the colonial era, that does not mean that Flat Head News should return to the pseudoms of the past.

This is hilarious. Kind of reminds me of something Tony Klifton would right. More like a joke than a publication.

Random student… how ironic you would label me as the close minded one. I did make a point and it’s too bad you did not get it. It does look as if you are upset and whining over my comment. I am not sorry if I hurt your feelings, I love BMWs. M3 is my dream car. Anyways, the point is quite clear: Still, not a single “thank you”

Not one of the ed board members have served. Their comments and lack of facts only serve to highlight their arrogance and ignorance. They fail to recognize the facts behind paintball, all the good that has been accomplished from the event, and the rest of you choose to ignore the real issue- that the Flat Hat chose to honor Veterans Day not by covering specific Veterans on campus or any other productive story, but by printing this tasteless article which has done NOTHING for Veterans.

Our event helped people. I feel like I am talking to a wind up toy- I mention 10 different aspects of the event and I only hear one response back. No acknowledgment of anything else. No mention of charitable giving or of supporting our troops. Of course, the Ed board would rather attack people than give their time in service to a good cause on Veterans Day. If the Veterans Society, ROTC, and others did not take the initiative and work very hard to make the event happen, there would be no Veterans Day event, like previous decades.

Some can only attack those they do not understand, whose experiences and responsibilities they can and will never comprehend.

I have better things to do with my time than to spend it debating with those who have no credibility on the issue or real world experience – the “College kids” who wrote this garbage. This opinion piece means nothing and has no legitimacy. I don’t really care what the ed board or any of the critics think.

The REAL media, Senators, other vets, and legislative officials care about what I have to say. Flat Hat ed board carries no real weight. I will not waste my time arguing with fools, and only a non-veteran would debate a veteran about what it is like to serve and what is respectful for Veterans on Veterans Day. Perhaps I am the greatest fool for even speaking to those who are not even deserving of my time.
I’m not one for beating a dead horse, so if you have something to say, say it to me.

Lance,

When you make comments such as “The writer(s) of this post did not earn the right to tell Veterans, especially combat Veterans , how they should bring Veterans Day to the students. I was fighting in Iraq in 125 degree heat and losing dear friends while the “Flat Hat Ed Board” was in High School, worrying about what new BMW their daddy was going to buy them for their sweet 16th birthday.”, you come off as extremely close minded, unintelligent, and whiny. Instead of making an actual point, you revert to insulting, demeaning personal attacks and an appeal to emotions. I am sure that everyone reading this respects you for your service, you have courageously upheld the values of this country. However, that does not give you a free pass that your ideas are all sacrosanct and immune to criticism. If you had taken a more respectful tone, perhaps other posters would not have responded so harshly.

To Lance and the other veterans on campus: Thank you. I do appreciate the time, efforts, and trials that you have (and continue to dedicate in service to others).

To the Flat Hat Ed. Board: Thank you for sharing this article. It is very important to get views on different things and, at least when I’m involved in organizing (I wasn’t in this), feedback is appreciated.

Reading these comments over the last few days has been pretty hard, honestly. All of this back and forth argument. It is important to discuss things, but please be mindful of others! :)

I have not served in the military (not allowed to), but I have my views on this event, just like those at the Flat Hat do. I will also say that I was very surprised when I first read this article for the very forceful and inconsiderate language used. I do agree that maybe paintball was not the best way to honor Veteran’s Day. However, I have to say that paintball may not disrespect vets, but the attitude conveyed in this article does.

Thank you to everyone who has expressed their views so far.

Rainbows,
Mr. Kathy Middlesex ’11

Zaal, you are like school on sunday.

Kat,
I think that much of Mr. Zaal’s comments are being directed towards a Navy man who earlier in the post made claims about the realities of combat. In that regard, Mr. Zaal is right-he is someone who understands combat and war on a deeply personal level. Not very many other people on this campus can say that.

Everyone else,
True, Mr. Zaal may not be a spokesman for all veterans, but he is a spokesman for the vast majority here on our campus. The different groups here wanted to have a celebration on Veterans Day, not a memorial. Memorial Day is what that is for, and as I understand it they do solemn remembrances on that holiday-the one that was designed with that in mind.

I find this article distasteful but not surprising. William and Mary is know for being filled with liberal cry babies. The thing I find the most distasteful is the cowardly author: THE FLAT HAT BOARD. So do boards get together and write articles now. As a basic tenet of journalism op-ed pieces have a single author attached to them. Not hiding behind their board. Give me a break. I’m glad that I’m not one of you.

To all the veterans out there thanks for your service. To all the lefty cry babies: get a life.

Mr. Zaal,

You may disagree with what they write, but calling The Flat Hat’s ed board cowards is a weeeee bit of a stretch. Pick up a copy of the paper, and you can see all of their names (there are five of them I believe) printed underneath every editorial. And why didn’t you call the Student Assembly cowards when they initially expressed opposition to the paintball event? Oh yeah, you wanted money from them — pragmatism over principle indeed.

A fun idea would be writing a letter to the editor, or an op-ed, you know, shit that normal people do when they disagree with something that’s been written in a newspaper. Just a thought. But what do I know? I’ve never worn a uniform.

Well said Lance! These students who are complaining have no care for veterans: they merely want something to get upset over (and let’s face it, attacking the veteran’s society, rotc, and what you’re doing in general is right up their alley).

My question for the flat hat is this- where was your words of thanks on veterans day? Did you publish one single word? no. all you did was criticize, mock, and tear down. You really showed your concern for vets there.

Brian Rumple- Bosnia? Seriously? Are you going to try to denegrate ops in Iraq with the example of….Bosnia?

Raise the Bullshit Flag
On Nov. 11, some students of the College went to Veterans Day ceremonies on DoG Street and Williamsburg Community Center.

This SUNDAY (Not Tuesday, the 11th), the American Legion, Veterans Society of William and Mary, George Mason Veterans, ROTC, Hispanic Cultural Organization, Filipino Student Association, Hillel, College Republicans, Young Democrats, Prime Tribe, and others chose to support our Veterans here at W&M and support our troops fighting and dying overseas.

The Flat Hat Ed Board (Please, please do not be so cowardly as to not provide a name) chose to do nothing. They chose not to sign the banner for those serving overseas, contribute to the care package drive, or any other measure to support our Veterans. Instead, they chose to take a negative tone and attack the event.

If they had it their way, there would be no recognition of Veterans Day. Their claim for respecting Veterans is a facade, laughable at best and most people see right through it.

Moreover, those who choose to speak about that which they can never truly comprehend demonstrate not only ignorance, but supreme arrogance. Moreover, they demean that which myself and others have suffered through by suggesting that such a hellish experience can be trivialized through a fun sport. Those who have not served, experienced combat, or at the very least earned the right to even wear the uniform have no place to lecture those who have about honor.

The writer(s) of this post did not earn the right to tell Veterans, especially combat Veterans , how they should bring Veterans Day to the students. I was fighting in Iraq in 125 degree heat and losing dear friends while the “Flat Hat Ed Board” was in High School, worrying about what new BMW their daddy was going to buy them for their sweet 16th birthday. It is insulting that they think they can even begin to comprehend what we went though. Again, arrogance and ignorance.

Next, Brian Rumple is either a fictitious poster or a very ill informed and uneducated Veteran. I will go with the first. Regardless, the post is incoherent and full of inaccuracies. I find this really sad that some of you guys feel the need to go as far as making up a fake Veteran. Brian doesn’t know me, doesn’t know where I have been or what I have done. Yet he speaks as if he does… I wonder? If he was a Veteran, I hope he would have come to at least one Society meeting and shared his opinion. It would certainly carry more weight than someone who has not even earned the right to wear the uniform. Yet, even though he doesn’t know me he attacks my service.

Am I attacking your service, sir? Am I attacking you for what you did in the Navy? Do I think I am better than you for my combat experiences? No. If you had any respect for Veterans, or any self respect, you would choose to act in a more honorable fashion. Your comments are tasteless and low.

Moreover, Paintball was created years after Saigon fell (1975 FYI) So then, Mr. Bullshit, let me call a bullshit flag on you. How did your Uncle, who died in the Vietnam War (US offensive involvement 1963-1973), play paintball (the first game ever played in 1981)?

Unless I am missing something and you are on meds or have access to a time machine, your math is off. You were not at the event and you are not a student veteran at this university so how can you rightfully question OUR judgment? Would you question the judgement of your men on the ground? Oh that’s right, I forgot- you never had any.

I agree with your assertion about deceased Veterans, you are correct. They would want to speak with their loved ones if given the chance and I only wish I had the power to do so. If I knew you had a time machine or could resurrect the dead I would have contacted you instead of the paintball company. Perhaps we can bring your machine down next year.

Furthermore, Paintball was not created with the intent of even resembling warfare, but to test survival and hunting skills. There is a big difference between the two and warfare. If you or the Flat Hat Editorial Board were educated and open minded men you would have at least done your research, but you are both shams.

To the student whose father is a Vietnam Vet (I think I know who you are, but please provide a name): If you had attended the event or listened to what it was about you would have noticed that paintball was not how we were honoring Veterans. Moreover, several Vietnam Veterans, including a Government Professor who lost his right hand fighting in Vietnam, attended the event and thought it was a fun event and great idea. My Uncle is a Vietnam Veteran, fought with the same unit in the movie We Were Soldiers. They were consulted before the event was held and given all of the information. Your father, apparently, was not.

If I want to, I can go out and find a Veteran who thinks Veterans Day shouldn’t even be a holiday. I can find Veterans (or make up a character on a post) who will agree or disagree with everything. We are a most diverse group.

My point is, out of more than 35 Veterans, none have voiced any opposition to the event in person. God forbid we offend one person, especially someone who is not a Veteran but, in his holier-than thou attitude, feels the need to attack the majority instead of offer reasonable alternatives.
It is sad that those who claim to support Veterans exert so much energy attacking their event instead of acting in a more productive manner. Our men and women in uniform are dying every day to provide us with the security that so many of us, secure in our luxurious bubble, take for granted. The least one can do, regardless whether one agrees with the war or the methods used to support the troops, is thank them. To my knowledge, few have taken the two seconds required to utter two syllables to a Veteran on this campus: Thank You.

I would like to see the pro-veteran ed board take the time to type “Thank You” to all of the Veterans on campus in their next editorial, but would prefer if they actually took the time to do so in person.

-Sergeant Zaal, USMC

My father is a veteran of the Vietnam War and he’s disgusted by the idea of paintball as a commemoration of his service and that of others. If veterans are the ones able to judge what is disrespectful to veterans, does that mean we just divided by zero?

Gee. I guess Veterans didn’t realize that they were disprespecting themselves when they came up with this event. It’s a good thing you guys are around to tell them that.

That is right: the veterans did the paintball to disrespect themselves. Please.

americans are a very violent breed